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Amanda

Why do you think the division is such a mess and what is your hope post-SG?

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Posted (edited)

This is literally an open forum. Because I have no idea what’s going on right now. 

I thought once WM 2019 and Ronda were on a break, we could get the division back that many of us were enjoying around the time of “pre-Ronda”/Sslam 2018” (with ups and downs through Evolution) my timing can be a bit off, but I just remember after her taking the belt from Bliss at SS 2018 and Charlotte from Mella (Becky’s heel turn which turned into what she is now) the rest of the women were SLOWLY dropped from relevancy. Remember when at least the majority of the roster was being used before Rousey was actively wrestling? And we were all moderately happy, when was that exactly again? Call me crazy but i feel like there was a time.

Its like they had no fucking clue what to do after Mania w the division. Charlotte/Becky/Asuka was thrown in quickly and was cute for SD, but Auskas fell to irrelevancy faster than she ascended. ALL for the WM match. (Which lead to her arguably worst booked women’s title reign since the inauguration of the new belts) 

Fast forward. With all of the news of WWE’s dwindling ratings...Idk if it’s SDs move to FOX/prepping for AEW/or what. But since the brand split, the draft is honestly one of my fav times of the year, bc I’m ready for something fresh. I had so much hope for it this year w the tag titles and Ronda leaving. But that was obviously a mess and we are getting what we have now w this wildcard nonsense which has to be ALL FOR RATINGS....so looking at this upcoming PPV w/ 2 week build.

A) Lacey vs Becky... again w no more build or intensity - 🤨 (Becky pulls ratings but i think this will be boring overall)

B) Bayley vs. Bliss- Which is honestly the most surprising/fresh thing we’re getting. (We haven’t even seen Bliss actively competing in ages as she’s literally had everything cancelled since Evolution w her concussion issues.)  Also, the storyline is cute given the short 2 week timeframe bc they have a history and it’s smart to not bury another girl (i.e Ember) in a 2 week feud. BUT this is also predictable as a reverse storyline to Bliss “not facing the same Bayley” she buried with a kendo stick in her hometown a few yrs prior. (And they're clearly looking to build her with Cross “i think” as a face atm) Again I think putting Bliss In was all for Ratings, since she’s the only one  that’s going to pull them w Bayley in 2 weeks. 

——————

Sorry for the rant...but if you don’t want to read my whole opinion...i gave my thoughts on the 2 major questions i wanted to hear discussion of: 

What do you think was/are the major cause(s) for this current decline/downfall in the entertainment/interest/ratings of the women’s division? 

What would you/do you think (realistically) can happen post SG to help them rise again? 

Edited by Amanda

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The Raw division was booked around Ronda and Alexa for the past two years. Ronda is gone and they pretty much jobbed out every babyface to Alexa to the point where she has to feud with Bayley again, on a brand she's not even apart of. Now they're trying to push Lacey, who's as green as a bush. to be the next top heel but she's clearly not ready for the role. It also doesn't help that Becky has grown stale (as has the entire product to be fair).

On Smackdown, it centered around Charlotte and Becky with Carmella and Asuka being given reigns that always felt like filler. Carmella made the most of her run though. For whatever reason, WWE apparently can't find a role for Charlotte outside of the title picture so they have to continue to push her into the title picture. It seems we've gotten a break, for now, but we all know Charlotte will be fighting for the belt at Summerslam and Bayley's run comes off as WWE getting back at Sasha.

To sum it up, the chickens are coming home to roost for the terrible booking over the past two years.

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Alexa’s wrestling again the division has my interest so idc about anything else. Silently move Liv and Ember back to Raw and start fleshing out some character development though.

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Also, I have so little interest in the product right now that they could give Alicia the belt tomorrow night on Raw and I wouldn't care at this point. Nothing means anything anymore. There are no long term feuds or writing and everything just comes off as meaningless and directionless. 

This is how it felt being a diva stan between like 2010 through 2013 but at least we knew not to expect much. 

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I honestly think that WWE is going to see a massively decline in wrestlers soon due to AEW and the other companies out there. There’s been so many reports of there being so many unhappy people backstage and I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of the wrestlers don’t sign again. It’s the best time for other rivals to get bigger because the WWE is a horrible mess. This is the first time in about 5/6 years that I generally have just given up with anything the WWE do because it just all goes to shit. They get everyone’s hopes up and just don’t deliver at all... it’s so shocking that they just don’t know what to do. 

Honestly, i think the best thing is to make an all women’s show, along with 205 live on the WWE network and make the women be featured on all shows. That means it keeps all the members of the wrestling community happy because the women will get a 2 hour show where they can be involved in their own storylines (keeps us happy) and then men have RAW and SMACKDOWN to do whatever they want with the time.They will have more time for matches etc and they can extend storylines. I think it would work tbh, but i doubt it will ever be a direction that they would go in. 

They need to build the girls as well and create characters for them. Poor Ember Moon, Liv Morgan... do something with them! Even if it’s putting them with a tag team partner or making them a manager. Give the crowd a reason to cheer for these girls because it shows how CLUELESS the WWE are when Becky Lynch got over on her own without any help from the WWE and girls that are pushed to the roof hardly get any reactions. 

Better storylines are needed as well. Push back on the number of PPVs and make the storylines long and meaningful. Having a number one contenders match and then a title shot... or getting the woman to attack another and setting up for a match doesn’t work. ITS BORING! Make it personal between them and build them up through a lengthy program. Just bringing up NXT superstars and placing them on the roster isn’t making anyone feel like they give a shit. Make the title reigns longer and showcase them as actual champions!!!

I would say put Triple H in charge but NXT has been poor for the girls as well! 

I could go on but this is something I am massively passionate about😂😂😂😂 But at the moment I couldn’t tell you one thing about the WWE because I gave up about 2 weeks after the draft because I was just bored. I’m secretly hoping AEW perform and give the women’s wrestling community a great product that is interesting. 

 

 

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Same faces.

Same shit.

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This may come across as a shock, but they don’t care about women’s wresting. -GASP- Shocking, I know. Anytime women’s wrestling gets hot things begin to decline. WWE is a business that loves to make money and as of now they pretty much milked all there is for the women. There’s no more first evers they can do and they’ve done all there is with them. 

 

Ultimately they’ll have their select favorites that’ll get some TV time (Charlotte, Becky, Bayley, Alexa etc) but a division can’t succeed with only a handful of women. Things won’t be changing until Vince dies. Get used to it or find something else to watch like most of us have

1OkxjSP.jpg

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10 minutes ago, Layout said:

This may come across as a shock, but they don’t care about women’s wresting. -GASP- Shocking, I know. Anytime women’s wrestling gets hot things begin to decline. WWE is a business that loves to make money and as of now they pretty much milked all there is for the women. There’s no more first evers they can do and they’ve done all there is with them. 

 

Ultimately they’ll have their select favorites that’ll get some TV time (Charlotte, Becky, Bayley, Alexa etc) but a division can’t succeed with only a handful of women. Things won’t be changing until Vince dies. Get used to it or find something else to watch like most of us have

Will things even get better with HHH in charge? It's not like the NXT women's division is that much better. :hatnikki:

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3 minutes ago, blond. said:

Will things even get better with HHH in charge? It's not like the NXT women's division is that much better. :hatnikki:

Watch NXT or a Takeover and compare that to main roster television and PPVS. You’ll see there is a huge difference in the products.  You can debate whether the product will be better with Nose running it, but one things certain and that’s things sure as hell won’t be the same.

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9 minutes ago, blond. said:

Will things even get better with HHH in charge? It's not like the NXT women's division is that much better. :hatnikki:

Also can I just say that HHH isn’t even all that bad? He’s who brought Mickie James back and it’s been said he’s a fan of Alicia and Naomi. He gets too much hate when it comes to how he’ll run things

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34 minutes ago, Layout said:

Also can I just say that HHH isn’t even all that bad? He’s who brought Mickie James back and it’s been said he’s a fan of Alicia and Naomi. He gets too much hate when it comes to how he’ll run things

Agreed. NXT isn't perfect, but I think their biggest issues are that it isn't taped weekly, but multiple tapings over 2 days. To preserve the quality of the matches, an individual talent is only put in about 2 matches at most. Everything else a talent is featured in is usually a backstage segment, whether a brawl, interview, etc. Also, Vince prematurely calls up almost any talent gaining momentum in NXT, which leaves NXT trying to build new talent while the callups are sitting in catering. Triple H can be biased, but he's more in touch with what the fans want and seems more open to listening.

Back on topic, the biggest issue WWE has right now is the wildcad rule. It's been extremely boring to see roughly the same 12 men and women each week on both brands while literally over 50 wrestlers are struggling to get any screen time. Additionally, it just seems like a lot of the passion is gone. It's rumored a lot of talent is unhappy backstage and it's showing in the ring. The quality of matches has really gone down and both the roster and fans are over it.

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it hasn't been good since before the horses debuted

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29 minutes ago, Gavin said:

it hasn't been good since before the horses debuted

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I agree with this 100%. Good wrestlers don't mean good product in WWE and it has been that way for like ever. Per say, PG Era was just an excuse not to give the Divas exposure because they would eventually outshine Vince's top guys in everything they'd do, whether it may be wrestling skills, charisma or mic work, while the Evolution and everything that came with it just paved the way for Stephanie to get a few more zero's in her bank account, all of this while clearly diminishing every good thing that the Divas made with the little that they were given. WWE has become nothing more than a fancy prison for talent at this point

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There appears to be very little long-term planning done for the entire roster. Remember how people were upset that Nikki was left out of Sanity's call-up last year? She went from getting consistent screen-time in NXT and storyline development with Aleister and Ciampa, and now she's been booked consistently on RAW. Meanwhile... where has Sanity been? Why were they called up if they've virtually done nothing? Look at Tyler Breeze going back down to NXT, where he already seems happier. Kabuki Warriors have been absent, why bring up Kairi? This wastes space on the roster; not to say that the talents are wasting space but it means they're called up and their lives are disrupted in Orlando with NXT for no reason.

Since 2015, the division has revolved around Charlotte, Becky, Bayley, Sasha, Alexa, and Ronda. Carmella had a decent run, and she did make the most out of it. Her run was certainly better than any other reigns by Sasha, Naomi, or Asuka. The focal points, however, have been on those 6. Even when Charlotte was drafted to SD!, she immediately began a program with Naomi. I can't hate Charlotte, because she brings it every time, but she's been a fixture so much in the division that she doesn't need to be in the title picture. Ronda ran through the division entirely, from Sasha to Nia to Nattie. It's almost like they weren't prepared at all for her to be gone after Mania, despite everything that was rumored and all the interviews and soundbites leading up to the event and even after it. Her going through everyone really damaged the division in my eyes, moreso than when Asuka ruled NXT.

At the end of the day, it just seems like Vince just needs to trust his workers and stop being such a micromanaging boss. Hearing how he re-does scripts at the last minute, implements bullshit like the 'Wild Card' rule, and does comedy skits that are physically impossible to get through, he just needs to step back and let the writers do the job he pays them to do and trust his wrestlers to express their characters through their actual wrestling. I don't think it'll get better- the way they've booked Shayna in NXT has been so much worse than Ronda and Asuka's reigns, primarily because Shayna, although a good wrestler, is not exciting. Bianca should've beat her for the title during the fatal four-way match. Shayna and the other HW should be brought up soon, and then we'll see the same formula back on the main roster. Ever since management acknowledged Becky's popularity, her promos have been dreadful compared to how she is on Twitter. Just TRUST your damn workers to deliver instead of thinking they're too incompetent. 

I think that eventually, more signed people (Such as Ascension, AoP, the Colons, EC3 Ember, Revival, Sasha) will jump ship to another promotion, and may be replaced by folks from NXT (Mansoor, Kona Reeves, Deonna Purazzo, Mia Yim, Danny Burch and Oney Lorcan, Undisputed Era). They've either been poorly used or not at all, and the growing frustration is evident. When Neville left abruptly, it seemed out of the blue but understandable; now that another company has expressed desire to shake up the game, it means something. AEW isn't some promotion run by corporate people- Cody Runnels was signed in WWE back in 2006 and never had the chance to break out properly, so he knows the frustration. Japan has dozens of promotions that people like Ember and Sasha would flourish in, and the European scene is on fire right now. There are so many places where these people can go and be properly utilized.

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3 hours ago, blond. said:

Will things even get better with HHH in charge? It's not like the NXT women's division is that much better. :hatnikki:

It’s actually worse if you ask me. 

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2 hours ago, Henry Cavill said:

What’s SG?

Stomping Grounds 

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Posted (edited)

13 hours ago, Layout said:

Also can I just say that HHH isn’t even all that bad? He’s who brought Mickie James back and it’s been said he’s a fan of Alicia and Naomi. He gets too much hate when it comes to how he’ll run things

Oh I have no problem with HHH and would take him in an instant over Vince. But I don't find the NXT Women's Division to be that great. The booking now only centers around one woman who goes through multiple challengers. First it was Asuka, now it's Shayna. It's caused a lot of long term damage to the division. There is no Charlotte, Sasha, Bayley, or Becky anymore.

Though you could also argue that there's a benefit to it as when some of these girls do come up now, they won't be stale. One of my biggest problems with NXT has been the lack of room to grow for a lot of people who come up to the main roster. A good example of this would be Bayley. Her entire character arc played out while she was in NXT and by the time she was called up to the main roster, she had grown stale. And it hurt her.

Edited by blond.
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13 hours ago, Layout said:

Also can I just say that HHH isn’t even all that bad? He’s who brought Mickie James back and it’s been said he’s a fan of Alicia and Naomi. He gets too much hate when it comes to how he’ll run things

:skull: he's a fan of alicia so he shoved her behind him at evolution to get his time in the limelight?

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I don’t see how he’s a fan of Alicia or Naomi. Both veterans would have had opportunities fellow vets like Nattie constantly receive if that were the case. 

Honestly they need MORE than one feud per show. Title feuds (Becky, Lacey, Naomi could easily be a fun one ... Charlotte vs Bayley with Charlotte losing in the end) tag title feud (Iconics vs Alexa and Cross as well as Asuka and Sane) and then an undercard feud (where you build the likes of Sarah, Liv Morgan, Foxy, Tamina, Ember, Ruby, Mickie) you focus more on tag teams like Fire and Desire as well as Dana and Natalya! 

Keep everyone relevant. No one wants to see the same promos between Shane, Roman, Miz, Becky, Charlotte, Lacey, Seth, Kofi, Dolph and Lesnar? 

No one wants to see Lars Sullivan do the same exact thing every week nor do we wanna see two grown ass men arm wrestle? Lmao this company needs to get it together!!!

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They can do what they want. I don’t give a shit anymore.

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WWE is in such a sad state of affairs right now. We had a good run from like 2015 to 2018 and now it's like we're back at square one trying to get them to give ALL the women time instead of just the 4HW and Alexa.

I'm tired, I'm beaten, I'm done. They want to know why the fans tune out, it's because of this. There's no planning for the majority of the talent. Shane McMahon gets more screen time, that no one asked for, than any of the women. 

They waste so much time on nothing, it's infuriating. I feel so sad too because I love Becky and Charlotte and...none of this has me supporting them right now when I can do so many other things that are actually worth my time. 

Image result for frustrating gif

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3 hours ago, Don Draper said:

They can do what they want. I don’t give a shit anymore.

! Imagine both the people that run the company AND the company being trash? Yikes. Let’s move on girls, choose healthy habits 

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Whats sad is I am at the point where I don't even care enough to read the posts in this thread. I can't bring myself to read through what is probably some great discussion and ideas because I know it will all just be false hope.. that should tell you something. 

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There was once upon a time where a thread such as this would spark such a heated debate.

Good times.

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